Sometime I wake up as if from a nightmare but the nightmare is the day ahead.
Someone commented yesterday that they would rather read about sex than money. Yet, the same issues spring from both. Shame, fear and resentment. When I hang out with my very rich friends I come away feeling like I could have done better.
Most of my rich friends were either born that way or have handsome divorce settlements.
As the New Year approaches I am beginning to worry about what comes next – even though I know that the universe has and always will look me after. I want more. Yet, what do I do to get it? I enjoyed the relatively simple occupation of Reality TV. Just be oneself and do the work of being oneself.
The conundrum I have always had in sobriety-how can one be ambitious yet with gentle optimism hand over the reigns of ones life to God? How?
Dinner with Anna last night. She cooked linguine and aubergine mille feuille. Delicious. I tried wearing a huge, Russian inspired ensemble but as it turned out there were only four of us at the table and I felt like a bit of a prat.
When I got back to the car Luna had spent the hour tearing apart the rest of the passenger seat. Very distressing.
I must confide in you, dear blog, that I am trying to be optimistic about self-sufficiency. I would prefer to be doing it with some one. Being on ones own and making another project happen on ones own can be very, very depressing.
So, as well as becoming self-sufficient I may stop paying my mortgage. The house is worth 30% less than what I paid for it. Perhaps, like many Americans, I should negotiate a reduction in principle. Yet, the only way to do that seems to be to force the hand of the bank by not paying ones mortgage.
It’s a miserable option.
Duncan Roy's Blog 
I would have loved loved loved to have seen the Russian ensemble. As for the subject of money…I think Americans have the sames fears and trepidation (and shame) to talk about it as they do sex, on the opposite end of the spectrum. Like an “aberration.”
What would happen if indeed you stopped paying your mortgage? As a Brit, I mean…?
As always, your writing inspires…and as for your poor poor passenger seat, with the new year approaching, perhaps it’s best to see it as “out with the old, in with the new”?
Peace & Love
you’re right. They wont negotiate with you until they can see signs of distress. And if you’re paying the mortgage, then they see no signs of distress. You will need to come close to default (about 3 months of missed payments) before they offer you anything.
Thanks for clue-ing me in on the vest/waistcoat terms. I’ve always wondered. And a jumper, is that what we call a sweater?
oh dear. whatever you do, do not stop making payments! unless you plan on selling and can do a short sale, which ends up looking like a foreclosure on your credit report.{not a good thing no matter what you do}
Trying to be an optomist when your by yourself, is difficult, at best, im in the same boat,. Are you hopeful for love or just the company? Sometimes its just the latter, and it turns out its not what you wanted at all. I have great faith in you, and i think you have it in yourself also. We all muddle thru it, torn seats included 🙂
Well, I am going to stop making payments. My credit report is inconsequential as I am a British citizen. Anyway, a credit report is just another way of controlling people. It is an abstract construct to encourage one to be in fear around money. With 1 out of 157 houses in foreclosure in the USA the credit report is all but redundant and the credit system will have to be recalibrated when banks start lending again.
Didn’t you mention once that the home was converted into two apartments? Is there no way to lease one of the apartments to get income to help you with mortgage? California is such a god-awful expensive place to live in anyway. I don’t know how anyone does it. I’ve been pretty poor my whole life so the current recession/depression is not a big hardship for us. As adults we’ve always lived beneath our means. It’s what our grandparents did, and they retired nicely. I don’t use credit cards and only buy what I have the money to pay for at the time. I’m currently saving for an HDTV. I want one desperately.
Anyway, I wanted to ask about the leasing option as it may provide income for you. Good luck.
I should have said the recession is not a big “adjustment” rather than not a “hardship.” I don’t meant to minimalize what other people are going through.
Dear Duncan- I do so feel for you at this time. We are living similar yet different lives. I relocated to a new city after a divorce. I am on my own and have fear for my future. I was just told today after speaking to the bank the same thing as you about a mortage. Yet somehow I do not panic. I think of all the things I have been through that have tested my faith- not just in the universe, but in myself. You will get through, Duncan. That’s what we do. Some days we are the dog. Some days we are the hydrant they pee upon. But we accept that ups and downs are part of life. We are tested and we survive. I have faith in God, I have faith in myself, and I have faith in you, Duncan. I wish you a good life.
I guess if i had a option of not making the payment and it didnt affect my current life {as it is}
im sure id say fck the bank too! im rather envious!I think the way i was raised has a lot to do with that, kinda hard to teach old dogs new tricks etc etc.
im curious tho, how do you think they will change the credit system?
Sorry, folks, this is going to be a long response. If any of you get bored, there’s a scroll bar on the right side of your browser. —–>
I believe there is a basic confusion going on here between “worth”, and the problem of how to manage money in order to achieve your goal, Duncan.
What your home in Malibu is worth (in money) is only relevant when you are selling.
If you are staying, what it is worth is determined only by how living there benefits you NON-monetarily. Does it help you create, does it help you grow and think better etc. Your ability to pay to retain possession is an entirely separate problem.
I can’t really tell from your posts if you are unable to pay the current note, or if you just want additional funds in order to realize your intended transformation and revitalization project. If you have the money to pay, but not to change things, it’s up to you. Write/sell something, and use the advance. Or you can sell some of your precious things in order to make things move forward. Or you can ask some of those rich friends you’ve mentioned to help finance your vision.
In any case, some of them surely have financial managers and advisers whose advice you might benefit from.
If you don’t have enough income right now to pay, there may be a lot you can do to renegotiate terms. What can be done depends on your lender. It is only when you you have a US Govt.-backed loan (Fannie/Freddie) that they can’t offer you help until you are 90 days behind in payment. Conventional, private or corporate lenders of all other types do not have that restriction – and can work out many kinds of solutions. I guarantee they would rather hear from you BEFORE you fail to pay.
Right now every lender knows that many individuals are incapable of making their mortgage payment because of a job loss or another cause beyond their control. It is at this time, one must pick up the phone and call their lender because they can, in all probability, help protect your credit rating, keep you in your home and give you peace of mind.
When you call your lender, they will want to know if your income loss is temporary or more serious. If you have had a rapid loss of income and future payments are in jeopardy, advise them immediately of the exact nature of your financial distress.
If you have a conventional loan, it is possible for lenders to look at your financial position and work out some resolution that is advantageous both to you and the lender.
Your lender may be able to help you in one of seven ways: 1) By providing you with interest rate or principal reduction on your current loan, 2) By providing you with a re-amortization or loan refinancing on your current loan, 3) By granting you a special interest-free or low interest personalized loan based on the amount of money due on your missed payment, 4) By moving your current payment to the end of your loan, giving you time to get your finances straightened out, 5) By willing to accept a partial mortgage payment instead of the normal full payment, 6) By giving you an extended time period to get caught up on your mortgage payment. The time period may be as long as 1 to 2 years. This is achieved by appending a fraction of your unpaid loan payment remainder to your payment on a monthly basis until you are finally up to date with the payments, 7) By dispensing with the harsh late payment penalties that are often imposed as late fees.
Lenders only have a vested interest in keeping you in your home making monthly mortgage payments on time. Lenders are aware of the many fiscal difficulties borrowers have in making their mortgage payments when hardships arise. Your lender likely won’t volunteer their help, specifically if they don’t recognize you’re having problems making your payments. That is why, as a responsible homeowner, you must take the initiative and contact your lender and give them a heads up on your current financial hardship. You are a reliable man. Do the right thing.
Many lenders do not offer borrowers all 7 of these possible renegotiation alternatives, however, it is likely that your lender has access to several of these methods. Generally, you do need to qualify for this type of help from your lender. Often it consists in the form of a detailed financial statement and substantiation of income loss. It is sometimes hard for certain individual’s ego to have to admit to financial difficulty, but if doing so helps maintain you in your home, it certainly is worth the admission.
What YOU are worth has nothing to do with how much money you have. Money is just a tool, a fuel source, one (not the only) means to the end of acquiring something or achieving a goal. The use of it has rules and strategy, like any sport. If you are a beginning player, get a coach.
Duncan, sounds like you are in a funk. It too will pass. Mostly, funkytime comes from being alone at a holiday, that is, no significant other. That sucks, I know, I was that soldier for many holidays and celebrations.
Make a list of what you want for the next year.
Make a list of your ideal partner, everything you want in a person. You are in tune with the universe so let it happen and whatever you do you will be successful.
I would love to see you on another show being you. what about ‘design my line’ you have the talent and waaaay more personality than those wierdos on the show right now.
Cheer up mate, whatever else, you are loved.
As for the mortgage don’t go down that slippery road of not paying, that makes it too easy. Pay something, your castle is your grounding,think about your veggie garden. I agree with the subletting idea.
luv and peas.
I agree with Irena. I think that you are very charismatic on camera. There must be some niche you can fill. Unless you hate being on camera, which I find hard to believe. I think you’d make a great host of some kind.
I should mention that the cleaning lady and fancy French toast breakfasts are not exactly necessities, are they? Realistically?
Duncan, you are right about the credit score/reports…..they are only important to people who are interested in obtaining more (and more and more) credit. And who wants to be held hostage by a freeking credit score? Finally I am not afraid of a stupid credit score, I just wish it hadnt taken me 14 years to overcome that fear.
Living without credit takes some planning, but it isnt impossible.
Short sales wont be considered by the bank unless, ding, ding, ding, youre missing payments.
Michael the Geezer lists all the answers the mortgage companies like to say they are willing to do, but in our recent experience with two properties (and different lenders), none of the above worked. They wouldn’t even take our calls until they were missing 3 or more payments. Of course every lender is unique. If anyone reading this has actually been ‘saved’ by their mortgage company BEFORE going delinquent – speak up! Prove me wrong. Unfortunately it has come to the point where we have to play dirty in order to get any kind of response.
My comments stem from very recent personal experience, as well as my husband’s experience working as a real estate broker and property management-guy in the #1 state for bankruptcy, Utah.
Actually, I myself WAS saved by the above info. I was out of work for a year, and I got the info from a private money mgr. – not from a lender. Our lender deferred payment until I was re-employed, and gave me lots of slack precisely because I had been forthcoming about the problem.
Sometimes what playing dirty gets you is someone with more resources than you playing dirty back. They will win.
Ethics counts in these situations not because it’s the money game, but because it’s a contract, a promise between parties made in good faith. Acting above board and according to terms is to your advantage in any legal appellate process.
Not all lenders will treat you ethically, but even that is no excuse to act unethically yourself. That said, I have sympathy for the pain so many go through in playing the game. Players do get career-ending injuries. There’s always risk.
However, my overall main point was that there are alternatives to TRY before giving up or defaulting.
Michael, I enjoy reading your posts.
Most of all, I believe in ethics.When a person with boundless opportunities is thinking of reneging on a mortgage that just does not make sense.
‘when the going gets tough, the tough get going’
You just sell stuff, it’s just ‘stuff’ you can get it again,although the stuff I sold (art deco collection) bought my first property, I have not replaced it with any more ‘collctions’. Time changes your priorities.
We should not feel the need to impress anyone in a downward economy or any other time for that matter.It makes me laugh when I watch House programmes and hear prospective buyers talk about ‘entertaining space’they are just buying to show off to their friends and that becomes expensive.Not to mention futile.
Whatever else I own, my home is the most important and paying for that takes preference over anything else I may desire.It makes me feel safe. I had enough of hand to mouth living in the UK and I have done very well here in the USA.I need it to stay that way and Duncan should feel that need to create a safety net.
I think this recession has made a difference to how most people decide their priorities.I used to be able to buy whatever took my fancy, now I look twice and ask if I really need it.
I use my credit report to guide ME! I check it and it matters. I am from the UK and a permanent resident,I worked hard to get credit established, It matters to me. It’s no joke trying to get credit if you don’t have any.I hope Duncan will change his mind about not paying. Michael,you make sense!
I’m not so financially savvy but isn’t it kind of tacky to just stop paying your mortgage (presuming you can afford to pay it)? And far from being a construct, aren’t credit reports useful in determining how financially reliable a person is? I’m hugely in debt on account of some bad decisions, as well as my massive student loans (including one from a private lender, which disguised the loan as a federally subsidized in order to take advantage of my financial ignorance when I was 25.) But I’m working hard to pay them back, in part because I want to remain proud about my integrity where money is concerned. So, I really agree with Michael the Geezer.
Independent of this, I very much enjoy the blog. I just started reading a few days ago.
Nope, I don’t agree with you or Michael. I think you are both wrong. ‘Financially reliable’ like say-the banks? Credit reports are, I will say again, mere abstract constructs to control people and their attitudes toward money and themselves. If we learned anything about credit agencies from this financial debacle it is that these agencies are utterly corrupt. You are hugely in deby because you live in a country where dent enslaves the populace. Student loans? YOu should have had a fee education like the majority of Europeans. You should have socialized medicine-like the majority of Europeans. Remember, debt is designed to enslave the masses. I am glad, however, that you are reading my blog.
Proletariat peon here just finding it a wee bit difficult to relate to the concerns that seem……well, coyly I’ll not complete the sentence.
Rehab, God, spirituality, recovery, personal struggle, personal triumphs, overcoming, finding that faith, hope, love, and many other virtues, are alive and well deep within almost every human heart. *Sigh*, these are the topics that capture my imagination. Low class wench here who cares little for fashion, bank accounts, real estate and general hobnobbing. Thanks for sharing your spirituality, your true emotion and the raw true humanity of your journey through rehab, Duncan. I wish you the very best in all your future endeavors. Thanks to you and your fellow rehabbers for starting a much needed, and often avoided, conversation. You’ve touched many lives.
Via con Dios and Peace.
Well not to keep going back and forth, but I don’t think a credit report is quite an “abstract construct” (Or, as I would have put it, an “artificial” construct). Human Rights are a construct of the type you describe because they don’t exist as tangible things. As a result, people can make up, agree upon and believe in whatever “rights” they want to, but there will always be something arbitrary about them.)
A credit report, though, seems like a pretty satisfying measurement of how financially reliable a person is (in the same way that points on a scoreboard indicate who played the better game).
My main point, though, is that it seems weak to complain about corruption if we don’t try to act with integrity ourselves. I’m actually very leftwing and I think I’d enjoy living in Europe — but what you’re advocating is a kind of American Wild West, where everyone tries to game the system to their own advantage, never operating in good faith or adhering to principle. I’ll keep enjoying your blog, but I wouldn’t want to do business with you! 🙂
We should just agree to disagree. A credit report satisfying? Truthful? I think you must be very young. You trust the idea of the credit agencies I do not. You believe in the frippery of capitalism, I do not. John, you are indeed living in the unregulated wild west and see what happens? Enjoy my blog but I wouldn’t want to do business with you either! lol
(Why am I doing this? – Oh yeah, I have the day off.)
Does it muddy things further to say I agree that credit reporting IS a game, only because it can be “played”? When I was unemployed for a year, my score went UP because (on mgrs. advice) I opened a pre-guaranteed card with 0% for 6 mos. and made final payment on a car loan by trading it in for a cheaper one.
Duncan, we may disagree on what to do, but I will continue to believe that your best resource is your ability to be both creative AND honorable in coming up with a solution that is right for you.
why not pitch a HGTV idea about your home and have them pay your mortgage? You liked being yourself, lord knows you have enough charm and intelligence to work it your way. Have them finance your self sufficency, and let what happens..happen!
Just wanted to chime in about your being a British citizen, I thought a credit score followed you where ever you go, not just in the country where you incurred the debt. You may believe the credit score is abstract but if you move back to the UK and want to apply for a home loan the foreclosure in the US will pop up, or so I thought.
Does anyone know?
yes, I know. credit scores are country specific. they don’t follow you to other countries. you are wrong. anyway, the point is-credit scores don’t mean anything if you live outside of the system. people are so stuck on credit scores as if they actually mean something. they don’t. it’s bullshit.
Yes, it does not show. I know from experience. 1988 I lost 2 properties after a huge tax mistake.I came here and started again.
Oh I forgot to mention that my house in the UK which was in negative equity when I foreclosed on it, was worth 5 times what I paid 6 years later! The other property in Spain, purchased for $52k which I sold is worth $600k today.House prices do go back up.
How long can people live outside the system?
As long as they want to. wasn’t the USA founded by people who wanted to live outside of the system?
Yeah, but I’ve had credit checks just trying to get car insurance and a cellphone. Seems like you’re left dealing with the dregs of the business world when your credit is shot. You sort of become a rent-to-own person then, paying top price for shoddy service.
Regarding your project, I saw a book called “Farm City” by Novella Carpenter that may interest you. Though I haven’t read it, it seems to be a memoir about a couple attempting to start an urban farm in Oakland. Her blog is here: http://farmcity.wordpress.com/
I hope this is helpful!
If you stop making payments on the house in hopes for a modification, you best be living in it and not making enough rental income to pay the mortgage, taxes and utilities. I’m curious how someone can have dual citizenship and buy here without being married to a US citizen. I guess it can be done.
Credit scores don’t mean anything unless you are looking to borrow or want to work for a corporation that runs your life. If you screw up temporarily but make payments on a couple debts consistently after that, the banks will come around when they free up the money. They will have to.
I don’t have duel citizenship. You don’t need to be an American to buy property in America or get a mortgage from a bank. What ever made you think that?
hi again, i know about not having enough money to keep up with friends, and trusting a “higher power”. i have been flat flat broke several times. i have neither talent nor great ambition, so even when i am ON i am still underachieving. now that i have quit working altogether and collection social insecurity, i am even poorer than usual… and yet, somehow, a life is happening.
my brilliant idea, encouraged by the fact that i am to realize an increase in soc sec next year based on the income of a former spouse, is to move to costa rica, with the hope of emulating ava gardner’s character in night of the iguana. i may not be able to pull off the houseboys, but it will be nice to go tropical and get away from this crazy country, AND have my money go 4 times as far.
see you in CR?
While some people may be able to play chicken with the banks, I wouldn’t personally count on being one of them. As for your home’s drop in value, it’s probably temporary. It’s not like a place like yours is going to become undesirable anytime soon. Despite the California economy, the mass exodus from the state, the fires and the earthquakes, I’d be there in a shot if I could live someplace like your place.
I’ve seen my credit score rise and fall to pitiful levels two times. Thankfully it’s creeping back up again. It’s certainly not the end of the world as The Man would have you believe.
Sell the house. Leave LA. Do your art elsewhere. Paris, yes?
I came across this article about a month ago. Seems topical:
http://blogs.wsj.com/developments/2009/10/30/its-ok-to-walk-away-a-law-professor-argues/
Link to the actual paper by Professor White:
Click to access WalkingAway1029.pdf
Just a general comment …
Your blog is a pleasure to read. Smart, intimate, beautifully written and insightful. No wonder you were the most interesting person on Sex Rehab. Please keep it up!
Hello Duncan, I learned the relationship between sex and money now ” sex and money. Yet, to me, the same issues spring from both. Shame, fear and resentment”, I was also informed there is another way to look at a credit score. My approach towards money will never be the same…:-)
With things the way they are right now in America I’d say there are tons of people, in every class, whose credit has gone down. I think large-scale companies which normally require credit checks now advertising things like “no credit, no problem” just goes to show it is happening amongst all classes. As for not paying the mortgage, if the value of Duncan’s house has gone down he should not have to keep paying the same rate and he will not be the first to stop paying, to get it reduced. It may effect his credit score for a while and so what. Credit is not nearly as relevant as some people seem to think it is. Not to mention it seems Duncan has owned quite a few properties, so you can assume he knows something about what he is doing.