Breakfast with John this morning at Cecconi’s. We ate oatmeal, which is American for porridge. Actually just milled oats with hot milk rather than the creamy, steaming, slow cooked porridge of my youth. Served this morning-like a desert-with strawberry jam! Yuk.
I was telling him about the long relationships that I have had with women. I have always identified as gay but recently, after rehab and therapy I am coming to other conclusions. Gayish maybe. I don’t know. ‘It’s complicated’ as they say on Facebook.
My relationships with women, as with Jennie on the show, have always been incredible romances.
I have loved women more than I ever loved me.
That was a Freudian slip. I meant to write men. But it’s true; I have always loved women more than men or me.
The woman that I have loved the most have been highly intelligent, powerfully articulate, always incredibly beautiful and sexually submissive. The most recent being the editor of a highly regarded magazine. I refer to all my past female lovers as my ex wives.
To understand these relationships I’d best explain the relationship I had with my mother.
My relationship with my mother was intensely emotional. Remember, she too was held hostage in our ‘family’ by my violent step-father. Consequently, I became her escape, her confidant, her secret affair. On the bus to Canterbury I said, “I’m not your boyfriend!” For the remainder of the journey we both sat in silence, shocked that I had articulated what had, until that moment, been our terrible secret. I was 12 years old! In lieu of a loving husband or a loving father we loved each other absolutely, unswervingly. She would confide in me, when we were on our own, that there was only us, no one else existed. Just her and me. That if she could she would run away with me. This emotional incest laid the groundwork for the intensity I seek out with women.
Sexual violence I seek from men. I always find it.
Even though I have had long relationships with men, I devalue these relationships when I compare them to the relationships that I have had with women.
The truth is my mother and I never escaped. She stayed married to my step father and endured his constant punishment. I escaped into madness and addiction.
I still find it very difficult to forgive her. She is a sweet and simple woman who really did her best to make a terrible life better for all of us. However, knowing what I know now would it have been so terribly hard for her to put my brothers and I onto the bus and somehow get away?
I don’t believe that all gay men are born gay.
I know that this thinking sets me at odds with the majority of the gay community and many, many straight men. Saying that, I don’t believe that there is a cure for homosexuality – as once the dye is cast our sexuality seems inevitable.
There is no evidence that gay to straight rewiring or reorientation actually works.
However, gay men who live with and marry women are of course far more prevalent than we like to admit. But should these relationships be discounted? Both Oscar Wilde and Vita Sackville-West had incredibly loving relationships with both their spouse and a member of the same sex. Indeed, Oscar’s love letters to his wife are as beautiful and compelling, if not more so, than his letters to his male lover. Vita’s profound love for her husband provided a springboard from which she would leap into a previously unimagined same sex world.
Again, in my experience of having relationships with women, women were far more accepting of my behavior than one would like to believe and tended to stick by me even after multiple same sex indiscretions. When I have had relationships with women, women who knew that I had preferences for men, they tended to overlook the past and focus on a future that we might share together.
Most gay men who identify as gay are born gay. However, a few men (and I count myself among them) are sexualized at an early age. I am plagued with this question: If I had not been so badly abused as an infant would I have become gay?
There are many varieties of gay.
Men who own to same sex desires later on in life endure accusations that they were merely in denial: minimizing their life’s journey.
The group of men who seem to cause the most distress to both straight and gay men are those who genuinely seem to have sexual choice and act accordingly. Same sex experimentation amongst straight men, despite rowdy protestations, occurs more frequently that any of us like to acknowledge.
As I have written before we, as a society, are incredibly prescriptive about the sexual identification of others. Supposedly, once a man has crossed the sexual Rubicon he is damned. Bullshit. If only these sexual prescribers applied the same rational to female sexuality. But how can they? When straight men persuade women to act out lesbian fantasies have these women now become forever lesbians at the behest of heterosexual men?
All of my work as an artist has sought to understand, rework and revisit my initial trauma. This now feels, after therapy, like a terrible indulgence. Yet, to let it go..what am I left with? The future seems very bleak without this grotesque narrative.
PS My mother visited me after my grandmother died. It was uncomfortable for both of us but we got though it. When the big dog was killed I called her crying but I felt like I was crying to a woman I no longer knew.
In the words of Tennessee Williams: Time is the greatest distance between two people.
Duncan, I think you’re quite amazing! My favourite quality in people I love is good self-perception. The ability to have insight into your own thoughts, beliefs, behaviours, and more, is a gift, and a skill that many people never learn! Your ability to reflect on your life, and your honesty, are refreshing.
A label is what fucks you over. If you love someone, you love them. I have had the loves of my life in a female and a male. I loved them and they loved me. Period.
Sonia, if labels are what f’ us over…
Then perhaps they best are used for
canned food and not people.
Of course, if so, I think I’m likely
a can of mixed fruit.
Cheers,
Paulie
I love when you post on these matters Duncan. I think people trying to classify sexual orientation just makes everything all the more confusing. I am a woman who will only date men but sexually I am attracted to both sexes. Does that make me bisexual? I haven’t got a clue. In the end you just have to go with what you feel and forget about trying to classify yourself. Just be Duncan.
Every person can love on multiple levels; Physically, Mentally, Emotionally, Spiritually…
I see sexuality as but a label given by people who can’t fully understand, and/or are not open to the mulitfacited aspects of love.
As for myself I Identify as gay because I’m most compatiple with men on all levels versus women.
For example, I can view a woman as beautiful, but that would be to the extent in which I would persist in the physical aspect. As for a man, I’d begin to develop further physical feelings into the sexual realm, andbIwold never venture to that extentwith a women.
Emotionally I can develop unconitional love for both sexes because emotions are not always defined by physical limitations. An example would be how I love my mother and brother both the same; however, I would have no desire to think on any physical level with them in mind. (Eww)
When these aspects of attraction and love are combined in akward and uncommon ways, lables become important to to those who don’t care to explore the issue any deeper due to personal boundaries and upringings, thus leaving a person with a generic lable for an aspect of love they may refute, but never bothered to understand.
You write such moving posts, Duncan. I know you say you are turned on by the negative stuff people throw at you, but I just can’t do it. You are doing too much good for yourself and for others by working hard to understand and outgrow the painful parts of your past. At least you are aware of how needing, or wanting or just being used to being abused limits you.
So, some are born, some made, some both, some born one way then get reborn (or remade) and many change from what they begin as into what they become over time.
The simple, universal approach to all is still forgiveness, acceptance, encouragement and honesty. We have to cross cultural and personal obstacles to do it, but it must be done.
I don’t see why your emerging understanding of how complex, subtle and malleable sexuality can be wouldn’t inspire you toward better works of art.
They just won’t fit the conventions that used to shelter you previously.
You are very articulate and very courageous to share such deep, powerful, sad stuff about yourself.
Thank you.
Thank you for your deep insight to yourself and others. As a recovering alkie myself, i have had some nice moments watching your work on the show.
Keep up the great work.
My sister was abused by our male cousin from the age of 9 till she was 14 and when she was in her 30’s, she came out to our family and her friends. I have often wondered, as did she, did the sexual abuse have anything to do with her being a lesbian. Who knows, and it just doesn’t matter, she was who she was, I loved her immensely no matter what. She died never knowing what she really “was”. It’s saddens me that we all get labeled-she was the lesbian and I was the addict.
No matter what you are Duncan or what you are not, you are loved.
Duncan
Having read what you wrote and the other posts, I’ve left with a question. Why do we label ourselves, and allow others to do the same? You’re not who you have sex with! And why does it matter? For myself, the very last thing I’ve ever worried about is what sexual orientation another person is….of course I’ve also be told by friends that if I were any more open minded my brains would fall out!! But seriously, if labels make you unhappy, ignore them!
Gorgeous.
Once again Duncan, your words are so true, and honest. Thank you for saying them.
Thank you so much for this entry. I hope you find love in whatever form you choose Duncan. You are so worthy!
Duncan
Your blogs break my heart, and really brings tears of joy and pain.
I had no idea.
Jeannie also tears at my heat. Her writing talent is so raw.
Eileen
Gay refers to orientation, and orientation describes sexual response. Of course gay men can have meaningful, loving relationships with women that only fools would discount. If there’s no deception, what is there to discount? Even with self-deception only the sexual desire is subject to delusion, not the emotional bond.
But men who have primary sexual response towards men, yet prefer relationships with women, are still gay. They might be happier if they were romantically linked with a person who could satisfy all of their basic needs. I am not calling YOU gay because I don’t know which sex your sexual circuitry responds to more intensely.
in your opinion Kevin, in your opinion. gay to me refers to culture and not to orientation. It is a slang word that hints at more than same sex coupling. it is limiting and divisive. it is reductive. you sound to me like just another 10%er who believes in one thing or another and cannot get their tiny mind around sexual fluidity or choice. What is more kevin my responses are not the sum of me. it is up to the individual to define themselves not up to you. the love of someone may mean more than the sexual response. could you get your head around that? that I might want to be in a relationship with some one because I loved them rather than want to fuck them? The term later began to be used in reference to homosexuality, in particular, from the early 20th century, a usage that may have dated prior to the 19th century.[1] In modern English, gay has come to be used as an adjective, and occasionally as a noun, that refers to the people, practices, and culture associated with homosexuality. By the end of the 20th century the word gay was recommended by major style guides to describe people attracted to members of the same sex. I would also like to draw your attention to the B & T in the LGBT alliance. I am sure that their experiences of sexuality are nothing like you describe and choose to ignore.
My opinion lines up with reality. Gay is a synonym for homosexually oriented. It may HINT at more than that in your mind, but it doesn’t REFER to more than that.
Yes, I believe one thing or another, you totally know me.
I never said their is zero human sexual fluidity. What I said is that for men, they congregate around the ends of the sexual orientation spectrum. Even those who identify as bisexuels demonstrate a physiological preference in sexual response to one sex or the other. Try wrapping your head around empirical evidence for a change.
I never said your sexual response was the sum of you. You need to stop getting so flustered when you read something you disagree with so that you can accurately comprehend it. Sexual response is an important PART of a person’s wellbeing, and for most people it is integral for the formation of cohesive romantic commitments.
You’re setting up a false dichotomy. You can be with somebody you both love AND want to fuck. How is this hard to understand?
Your opinion lines up with reality? Well, every dictionary seems to disagree with you. Actually the word means so much more than merely a sexual response. However even if it was your reality is nothing like the reality of the men that I know. Or the women for that matter. Using hyperbole to try and fluster me? I don’t think so. I don’t feel flustered. You believe that men (and women?) congregate around each end of the sexual spectrum because it suits you to believe that. The empirical evidence? Where is this evidence Kevin? Of course when forced to own to one thing or another what will most people do? Most people. I do not feel like I am most people. A false dichotomy? Of course one can be with someone you love and fuck, however, I don’t seem to be able to do that. My bad.
I really prefer to keep this civil, but I have a bone to pick with this tactic you’re taking. It’s the same tactic the god-heads I used to talk with before I wrote them off as hopeless would take with the word “faith”. They would conflate the definition “belief without evidence” with “trust or confidence”, and accuse me of having the same type of intellectual failing that they had, because I had “faith” that the sun would come up, or because I had “faith” in my abilities. In both those cases, my “faith” is based on prior knowledege, a totally different sense from the faith of religious belief.
Same here with gay. One, the primary definition, of the word gay refers to homosexual orientation. You know that, I know that. Let’s please be honest with each other.
I am not using hyperbole, my style is plain.
I don’t prefer to believe this about bisexuality, I don’t give a shit either way. I believe it because of the evidence. Multiple surveys show that bisexual identity represents a very small minority, and the few studies that have been done to date on physiological arousal have shown that bisexual males really do congregate around the ends of the spectrum.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/05/health/05sex.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1. You can find the studies referenced in there on pubmed. I don’t have a dog in this fight, dude. I don’t deny that bisexuals exist. We disagree over what extent.
Kevin, you do not argue like someone that “doesn’t have a dog in this fight”. You seem to have a deep seated need to marginalize any view of male sexuality that doesn’t agree with your own.
You have jumped onto a post Dncan made about his own feelings and his own experiences with an attempt to prove that something he was thinking about wasn’t scientifically provable. Are you a little sensitive about listening to someone’s views on male sexuality? Hmmm, what would Freud say?
Johathan, I think this time a
cigar is just a cigar.
Let me explain. I believe
Kevin and I come from a very
similar background.
I’m an atheist activist and
am in no way a scientist, but
admire the scientific method
and it’s gifts. (Though I do
have a Physics degree).
And I can tell you, there’s
a kind of reaction that those
of us who are so very sure…
…and I mean sure…
…that that these are very few
ideas/beliefs that are useful or
helpful to have and hold…
…except for beliefs that are
based on “reality”
Consequently, we can sort of
exorcise out of ourselves any
beliefs that are not based on
sufficient evidence.
Or, the more balanced of us
will hold on to our beliefs
as long as there is not bold
contradictory evidence, but
we wouldn’t hold out those
insufficiently proven beliefs
as important for you to adopt,
embrace, or use to governor
your behavior.
Consequently, I wouldn’t take
the TOPIC CHOICE of his behavior
to be indicative of a strong
connection to the topic.
It is rather, I suspect, a
reaction to a pattern that he
would just as easily engage if
the topic had been…raising
children…race and intelligence…
or new age nonsense.
Does that make some sense?
Warmly,
Paulie
Polly, no, not much sense really. Admittedly my degrees are in the arts so I may have trouble understanding your opinions disguised as reality or moral absolutes. Your tone about belief is condescending. (That’s a big word, you DO know what it means, don’t you?) I suspect that you and Kevin do come from a similar background (if not the same IP address). You both seem determined to pursue an argument that is irrelevant to the intent of the original post where Duncan was willing to question long held beliefs (that may put him at odds with a community he identifies with) in search of his own answers to personal issues.
Duncan, did I mention that this subject may garner some interesting responses?
Jonathan,
I’m a Paulie, not Polly. I guess it was a
very bad post if even my name was unclear 😉
I’m sorry you felt so attacked, unsupported,
or condescended that you wanted to use sarcasm
to question my vocabulary.
I don’t know what I did to fail in communicating
so, if it’s acceptable. I will promptly admit
to the failure and move on. (I have no pursuit
of an argument relevant or otherwise).
I wish only to unite.
I love that you have an arts degree, I think the
arts are very essential to and from our human
evolution.
And to be very direct. I don’t mind at all if
Duncan sees himself as gay/str8/bi/trans…
I, like him, have no need to question someone’s
self-assessment.
Interestingly, since that’s the topic, in part
here today, when I saw the first episode of Sex
Rehab, I felt annoyed there were no gay people
and I thought Duncan was the closest thing but
I thought he was bi based on something he said.
Specifically, his comment about women knowing
what they want or being easier to please or some
such thing…
…so I only knew (and accepted) he self-identified
as gay…
…from this blog.
🙂
Again, my apologies if my posts went along with a
displacement of your serenity.
Cheers friend,
Paulie
You added more to your post after I had opened the window to type my first response so I didn’t see it.
Yes, words can have multiple definitions. In this case we are using the word in its sense as a description for sexual orientation.
We are using it to describe sexual orientation are WE? You are Kevin.
Duncan man I love you man! your a good Bloke on the show who cares what the “Haters” say they call you a hater but what the fuck are they? Oxy Morons.
Kevin, I am not sparring with you about sexuality. You obviously have a healthy sexuality and come from a healthy place sexually. I do not. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Thank you for remembering the B. The B is real. Bisexuals exist. I’ve heard most tend to gravitate to one sex more than the other, but not necessarily.
Not that it matters what anyone thinks, I think you came across ase a fantastic person. No matter what the haters say, this middle aged well education woman thinks you are brave, witty, intelligent, caring, kind and attractive. I wish you the best of luck in your recovery and I hope you find peace and love.
Duncan – yes. exactly. all of the above. thank you for parsing out what a great many of us experience, but few of us discuss. To paraphrase Holocaust survivor and psychologist Viktor Frankl: “There are only two genders: the Decent and the Indecent” Which is to say that whom we love and how we gender-identify is far less important than our core integrity and – dare I say it – beneficence. Best, Leslie
Dude, there is a difference between men identifying as bisexual and men acting out with other men. My experience with straight men I have had sex with and my experience with styraight men I have listened to share their stories have often included sex with other men or transvestites. In fact, just today I was talking to a man who has regular sex with transvestites as well as women but prefers to call himself straight. I have no desire to question his sexual self diagnosis. the word gay, for me..let me say this plainly..has nothing to do with men fucking each other and everything to do with a culture that exists around some men who fuck other men. I, of course, accept that my understanding is at odds with most gay men that I meet..and, so it seems..the NYT.
Both bisexual identity and bisexual behavior are less common than hetero- and homo-sexual identity and behavior. You are basing your perceptions of human behavior solely on your own limited experiences, and personal experience isn’t very reliable for a few reasons. In your case, it’s because you are an outlier. You have lived in gay-friendly areas and sought sexual interactions with straight-identified men…of course you are going to encounter more bisexual behavior among men than the average person.
If you have such a problem with the word gay, then replace the word gay with homosexual in the second paragraph of my first post.
Your last sentence did not make any sense I am prepared to overlook that. Please learn to preface what you say ‘in my opinion’. You seem so sure of yourself when it comes to this subject yet I (and I am sure you to) have trawled the internet for evidence and there is very, very little. I can only talk from experience and the experience of many, many gay men who seem to make a sport out of blowing straight guys. I can speak on behalf of straight men who own to their same sex behaviours. As for living in gay friendly areas? where would that be? My home town of Whitstable is far from gay friendly. I have lived there for the past 30 years. Just admit it Kevin, you have no evidence and the evidence that is out there is subjective. Whether something is common or not and most people would say that we as a group are a minority-unless you disagree with that too Kevin-should we not give it some thought. Contemp prior to investigation seems to be your jag Kevin. Who ever you may be.
Hello Duncan,
Let me start by saying I am not gay or am anti gay but I do love your blogs
great work very deep and well thought out. I have a question about Sex Rehab show
what exactly was Kendra doing in the bathroom? Also what day would you say that Kari Ann left? Thanks Duncan Hope everything works out for you in your life.
Duncan, thank you for your post. For a second, I thought you were going to take on something difficult like world peace. It should be interesting to see the responses this garners. You take a position that is likely to ire some in both the gay and straight communities. I agree with you that either absolute on the question of predetirmined sexuality doesn not seem to work. Clearly (to me) there are those born with differing or conflicting sexuality or genitalia or both. Anecdotally, I also believe that many things, including trauma, in childhood shape many people’s sexuality and gender identity. I think that in some human societies we have narrowed the deffinition too much. I think a case could be made that the more sophisticated or evolved a society becomes the more fluid these definitions become. The more primitive the society the more survival forces the sublimation (or maybe the culling) of divirgent sexuality.
So that is an interesting anthropological exercise, but you also spoke movingly about your own feelings about the relationships in your life. Whether sexual, friendly or romantic those relationships are shaped by the relationships from our childhood. Exploring how the relationships of our past effect how we react with the people we are (or want to be) intimate with is very difficult and I admire your willingness to question which ones are working and which aren’t. This is by far the most open and bravest post I have read of yours.
Kevin, this statement may be the most fatuous I have ever read: “My opinion lines up with reality.” That statement “outs” your bias and your attempt at rhetorical bullying. In the words of Johnny Cochran, Esq. “That’s the worst hyperbole I’ve ever heard.” (Yes, he really said that during the O.J. trial.)
Jonathan. wow. thank you so much for your comment. As you seem to understand-I am just trying to work shit out here in this blog. I shouldn’t have really replied to Kevin but i hadn’t eaten dinner. thanks again for your support.
You said something that really resonated with me. that I have not been writing from my heart. I will try to be more open in the future. i am working a great deal of this out in therapy at the moment. perhaps I should write it down. I tend toward bluster..it’s true
Oh brother, yeah it did make perfect sense. Do you disagree that “primary same-sex attraction” and “homosexual” are interchangeable?
Okay, I tell you that personal experience doesn’t qualify as reliable evidence for the wider population’s behavior, and you respond more emphatically that yours in fact does…and then you counter my statement that you have lived in gay friendly areas with your claim that you have lived in Whitstable for most of your life…that doesn’t contradict my point. You have lived in LA, Paris, and prison, cummulatively for years. You have lived in gay-friendly areas, my boy. And in Whitstable I take it that you sought sex from straight-identified men? You have to compare the number of straight-identified men that you did blow with the number of straight-identified men that you have known, that you did NOT blow, you need that denominator if your personal experience is going to tell you anything about prevalence.
There IS evidence for my position, it’s much less subjective than what you rely on as evidence, and if the evidence contradicts previous conclusions I will follow the new evidence where it leads. If anybody here is acting unduly contemptuous it’s you.
my ‘claim’ that i have lived in Whitstable? You really are just trying to goad me. so crude kevin! thought you would have been more adept. I sold my house in Whitstable two years ago. I was in Prison for ten months during my 23rd year. (and actually that’s exactly where I learned how sexually fluid straight men are/were) I was in Paris between the ages of 17 -23 living with gay men. I may have lived in gay friendly areas but LA would not be one of them. As I said before, not just my evidence but the evidence of many gay men and many straight men. History is based on such evidence Kevin and more important hypothesis than this on lesser evidence. I don’t really trust your comments on this blog. I think they are designed solely to try and unsettle me. You are condescending and kinda rude. Provide the evidence to me and I wil read it. I don’t think you will be able to. Actually, because is MY blog I won’t be publishing any more of your replies. I wouldn’t waste your time replying after all..evidence or no evidence. I am sure you will find other bloggers to spar with but I am bored with you.
Kevin and Duncan,
In my opinion and based on my experience
(giggles), I think I see something going
on here that may be either be going on
unawares or worse just unspoken.
Duncan, since reading other posts by
Kevin, we started (and I’ve been negligent
in) an email correspondence because of my
preference for a-theist / anti-theist /
naturalist / objective rationalism.
Kevin, since reading Duncan’s blog, it seems
to me, he’s like several liberal
congregationalists (Unitarians come to mind)
who seem to be not at all fundamentalist in
theology, and not wholly irrational (I wonder
if you, Duncan, would even believe in a ‘virgin
birth’)…
…but still unwilling, unable, or perhaps
even think it’s unhelpful to shed the trappings
of having something ‘greater’ (in a specifically
supernatural sense) and even having that greater
‘thing’ be personal…
…and ultimately, having something to do on a
Sunday.
Kevin, I think you believe that a “belief” based
on SOME types of evidence is not really a belief
with any authority or power. That is, you
require peer review and the scientific (scientistic
at times) method.
Duncan, you have a life path as an artist, and as
such you know there is a whole host of truth that
is beyond the measure of operational phenomenology.
Let me give examples, …is there choice?
…is this beautiful? …is there a purpose to
my life? …who am I?
Taking just the question of “is there volition,
choice, or will…?” That will, at least for now,
remain a question in the realm of philosophy and
not science. It is not “testable” or “falsifiable”
in the classic sense.
However, it is a question that also exists in the
realm of ‘truth’. We either DO or we DON’T.
It is a binary question. (Even if we don’t always
have choice…if we even ONCE have it, it exists).
And, Kevin, …and really I should be speaking for
myself here…because it is true of me…I have
found that at times it’s easy to fall into being
not a scientist, but a reductionist.
So, having no method to rationally prove X…
…we decide that X cannot, mayby even, must
not exist.
Finally, I see this post is too late.
Duncan, you have taken your liberties.
I wouldn’t/don’t deny them at all.
All the same, perhaps you will find something
in this post that speaks to you…
Sincerely and with regret for it’s timing,
Paulie
Hmmm, look everybody, another ‘hater’. I am rather proud of my 5 unknown films. BTW, I choose to publish whatever comments I choose to publish. In the interest of fairness I am publishing this one but not your very abusive comment. For a person who was told he would accomplish nothing very little is fine by me. Also, I did direct a few plays and open a restaurant..and make a great deal of money along the way..
I loved this: “For a person who was told he would accomplish nothing very little is fine by me”. I relate to that.
Those must have been unknown awards those films were given.
I am blustery myself. If I pushed you toward greater emotional honesty, then great, I’m glad. It might be better if I had the ability to recognize sex addicted self delusion (nice alliteration) in myself. Hmmm.
yes, that’s true isn’t it! I won awards! fuck the haters! lol
You’re called little Buttercup, though I could never tell why. ~ G&S
I would love to hear what films you have made and what TV shows you have been on. Or, for that matter, maybe even a post that contained honesty or even anything about yourself and wasn’t hidden behind a pseudonym.
Buttercup, I have allowed you onto my blog comments roll so I want you to behave yourself and ask proper questions and be decent or I will simply not publish your comments. I know that you are more than spite. I know that you don’t want people to think you are a fool. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt. This is my party and if have come here to ruin it for everyone else you will be asked to leave-like Kevin was earlier. ok?
Well. as a sex addict I can can go pretty low. That’s why I did the show. So people like you who sail above the heads of everyone else get to see how low the rest of us are. Perhaps you can teach me how to be a better person Buttercup. Teach me don’t berate me.
Duncan,
To set this whole argument about labels and sexuality aside for just a moment, what I found so wonderful about the show was that I found out that I was not alone. Although I was not sexually abused I was an abused child, and to see so clearly that others had suffered as I had, and felt as I did, and weren’t afraid to say so made me feel so much better. As if a hurt shared was a hurt halved. To me (in my opinion) going on the show and sharing that with so many others is the important part about what you did.
you have said so many things here that are just simply…spot on. i find myself relating with a lot of what you’ve said–from the other side of the looking glass’ perspective, so to speak.
you really are an inspirational person, & i am so, so glad you found a venue to share your voice with the public! it feels like there are precious few people out there who WANT to be intelligent, who WANT to be open and be a better person every day then they were the last and you seem to be the only person i’ve ever seen on reality tv (and as the type who loooove to psychoanalyze people–how they relate to each other and me, i’m admittedly a person who watches reality tv most chances i get) who represents both of those ideals in a really successful matter. you’re admittedly not perfect, but you’re also admittedly very good at trying to be better (jennie gives me this same vibe 🙂 ).
please keep up with the blogs. i’m going to link this to share with some people!
Honestly Duncan. I really mean no disrespect. In fact, I admire your work and your honesty. You seem like a fantastic person and you have gone through some pretty painful experiences. Ignore Buttercup. This person is just trying to get you going. On the earlier comment, I am just really confused about my sexuality and when I read your blog, I started to question even more. I guess I just want answers that I may never get.
what questions would you like answered John?
I guess, now that I think about it, it isn’t really questions because I feel like in my heart I already know. I mean, I am a 20 year old college student. I didn’t grow up in an overly religious environment. I do have faith but in no way do I believe homosexuality is morally wrong. For some reason though, I long so badly to be straight. I cannot even really explain why. I guess it really is just to fit into to society’s standards, or the fear of being alone. I guess I heard about your experiences with homosexuality and I became worrisome. (I have never had a homosexual experience besides having same-sex attractions. I never acted on them).
John, I don’t let people like Buttercup bother me. I have a very thick skin. Buttercup thinks her computer and TV are probably her only friends. I represent something over which she feels she has power and she needs to let me know. I really don’t have anything other than compassion for Buttercup. I know what it is like to live in fantasy and Buttercup’s fantasy is that I care, that my ‘co-stars’ care or indeed anyone else cares about her or her opinions.
Hi John,
You mention being 20 and in college.
I’m 38, married to a wonderful man,
and …to be direct… a gay man.
It would be obtuse, ageist and darn
right disingenuous to say “Things will
get better” for you.
I do not, and I’m not sure I could
know or affirm that for you with any
meaningfulness.
I will however, say that growing up
gay (and I hope we can just use that
word without issue) in a hetronormative
society is a crisis and a trauma.
And the gay culture is not always very
good to it’s members. In fact, it’s
often darn right Hobbsian.
As far as society and it’s standards,
there I do feel there’s something to
say…
…standards change.
Societies, change.
Even a given society is geographically
isolated and thus there is societal
diversity around the world…
Now, because you find a ‘gay ghetto’
or because you find a city that is
friendly, doesn’t mean you will be
or feel like you can be a friend to
yourself.
However, if you do wish to dialogue
further you can email me at the addy
below (just remove the spaces)
just paulie @ gmail . com or you may
text / talk at 312-566-6195
By the way, please ignore this Buttercup character. I think you are a very positive role model for gay and straight people alike. You are a strong man who has worked through hardship and is trying to overcome his problems. I admire you a lot.
Duncan thank you for letting us follow along on your very personal and brutally honest journey. As a woman who loves men but never fucks them I feel perhaps like I am your little sister looking up to an older wiser brother as he finds his voice again and lets the labels fall away like an unneeded winter coat. In my life I have often been berated by the “real lesbians” (who often used to be married to men) telling me that I can’t possible be “les” or that I was confused if I loved men so intensely.
There was a point in my life where I couldn’t talk to the people who I felt just stood by when I was being hurt but I realized after a while that I also hated that part of myself as well. The real pain happened when I realized that I had hurt myself far worse then anyone else had and that I was not just the victim but had become my own abuser and bystander as well. In order to heal and love myself I have struggled far more in forgiving myself then those who originally hurt me.
thanks Duncan for being a class act on the show and for your blog
Labels, man, just always there’s the labels.
I applaud this post. You said so much here that I’ve thought about. I actually did sit back and clap when I finished reading it.
I could write volumes in response. I will keep it short.
For all it’s worth, I understand.
If I could sit down and talk about it with you (not a proposition or invitation), I could say it much easier.
Just know that your sentiments are shared.
hmmm, that’s 5 more films than me 🙂
duncan — i find your entries incredibly profound and though provoking. if only every thing were as simple as some of the minds that populate the world!
Hi Joshua,
I find this sentence to be a
tad objectionable.
I hope you’re not saying that
sexuality isn’t an immensely
important aspect of love and
of identity.
I don’t think that hetro peeps
go about making comments like
this because they don’t have to.
I wonder if perhaps you find a
benefit in this because you’re
gay and that’s different and it’s
punished and you’re a survivor in
the hetronormative times we live?
What do you think?
Cheers,
Paulie
Dear Paulie,
I find your entire response to be highly objectionable.
I hope you are not saying that Joshua is wrong. He clearly stated his beliefs about a broader view of sexuality and you belittled his belief because it didn’t conform with your very narrow view of sexuality.
What do you think?
Thank you Jonathan for the question.
I do have a gut feeling it’s not sincere.
I don’t think it was belittling.
I think it was clear that I had a tad
of an objection to one part of his post
which at least implies (and now I will
overtly say) I find resonance with
much of the post for me.
I don’t believe I was being a
reductionist. If so, I hope that I
will notice that in the future.
Cheers,
Paulie
Jonathan,
I thought more about this post.
I find gay sex to be a political act.
Hence, I notice that I see any attempt
that strike me as neutering gays as a
civil rights loss / setback.
Thanks for providing the context
into which I was able to see this
as part of my world view…
Cheers,
Paulie
Duncan, your insight about family dynamics is just amazing. As I read your posts memories come up and I am so glad I am thick skinned enough to brush them aside. The damage that parents do to their kids, me included! We are what we learn from parenting for the most part. Thank goodness i have my own self preservation I managed to get away from it, like 3000 miles away from it.The mental abuse and put downs as children only make us stronger. It’s almost like ego has to be huge to be able to disbelieve the crap we have put up with. When someone finally gives us appreciation and acknowlegment, we are apt to answer ‘That’s right’ not ‘thank you’
Both my sister (who had it worse than me) and I are tolerant, helpful and understanding to everyone. My nephew is gay, he came out to my sister when he was 16 and she supported him wholeheartedly, it did not matter to her. She was one of the first nurses in the UK to take training for AIDS patients when no one wanted the job. So maybe we should see the strength that comes with abusive situations.
You mum sounds like a lovely woman, I suspect her first marriage to your Father was an attempt to prove she could be submissive, we are the product of our family life.My first marriage was similar, I was always trying to prove that ‘i could’. So i put up with a man from the middle east until enough was enough. I wonder if your Mum stayed because she is an optimistic lady who did not want to fail again.
I do not want to Dr Drew this I have only respect for you. You are helping so many people after the show by sharing on this blog. Please write a book Duncan, we need to hear what you think.
Only unknown in your insular little world dear.
FYI There is a whole world outside of America where (gasp) people actually know who Duncan Roy is. hE is very well known thank you very much.
Did you know that before 2002 only 3% of Americans had a passport? I am from England and in my first months here I was asked “did you speak English before you came here? or did you learn it here?.
Okay, I started by replying to the comments.
Now I will pen my addition to Duncan’s post.
First, about the emotional role with your Mum.
While this is not a meeting, there is a sense
in which the blog is opening it up for shares.
It took me a while to identify the role my Mum
played in my overall victimization and abuse.
For me, my Mum was my sanctuary. What I didn’t
get was, that I was also for her. So while I
might “get” that her brother pushing me against
a radiator, beating me with a hairbrush, and
raping me so I could get used to “what it ment
to be a little faggot’ when I was 5…was abuse.
I didn’t really get that the being placed in the
role of an adult caregiver and, more in my case,
the ‘care-thinker’ … My Mum called me her little
“guru”, her little “thinker”, her little “idea man”
And I didn’t get it like you did.
And sometimes, I still really wonder. I mean, is
it really so “wrong” for a child to have major
responsibilities?
The experts seem to say yes…and they seem to say
that we do what we need to survive no matter the
nature or extent of the trauma…
I’m curious Duncan, at what age did you get a
step-dad? I was adopted at 4.5 and at that time,
I had no idea I was a ‘bastard’ or that everyone
didn’t pick their father when they turned five.
Now, I too, as part of my personal developement
and also as part of my identify as a gay male and
civil rights activist…I’ve asked that question:
“Did my abuse make me gay?”
“Would I be str8 if I didn’t play Dr. with Johnny
as a youngers?”
“…or if my uncle hadn’t ‘caught us’ and raped
and beat me for it?”
“Or, if I hadn’t got recruited at the YMCA or at
the local arcade to blow men in the bathroom as
a pre- and then early teen?”
And, it seems at some level the answer is: I don’t
know. and I’m not sure it is knowable…
But what I actually think is the nature of these
questions are actually sexual orientation neutral.
I think people are just as likely to ask these kinds
of questions about any behavior generated and even if
contradictory ones exist in people with the same
experiences:
“I wonder if I watch Sunday football religiously
because I used to be a star quarterback in High
School and I never moved up the chain even though
I so enjoyed it?”
or
“I wonder if I hate spots and sports stars and
all their money because I used to be a start QB
in HS and never moved on up the chain.”
or
“I wonder if I love watching the football games
religiously because I tried out for HS football
and never made the team but feel like I can see
my dream in my living room?”
or
“I wonder if I hate football and all sports since
I was never given my chance and it pains me to see
what could have been?”
To add a layer of complexity, for many in the
G of the GLBTQ community, there seems to be a
sort of victimology that requres that being a
gay man not be a ‘choice’
As if, were it’s an ‘affliction’ (like blindness),
it would deserve compassion–something hardfound
in our xenophobic society.
However, in the L part part, many seem to prefer
that it be understood as a political act–choice.
As if to give a voice to a kind of activist
feminism that says “women do it better” (for me).
These are simplifications and cross-sections of a
very diverse group.
However, it does speak to something else Duncan
suggests, a “Gay is fabulous” type campaign to
change hearts and minds.
I submit, regardless of how will it works on the
overall population. I think it would help to move
the G part of GLBTQ to more like the L part.
And shedding victimization can only be good.
We don’t need more ‘bug chasing’ and the like.
Duncan, what would it really take to advance an
ad campaign such as you’re speaking…and I mean
first on the practical level…and then on the
attitudinal one.
Do you have some thoughts as to why you think it
would help? Do you fear at all the ‘gay as fashion’
stereotype would play badly?
Warmly,
Paulie
While I do not claim to know Kevin’s mind,
I think what he was advocating was not ego,
nor rhectoric, but rather an keen observation
by many skpetics…
…and that is that not all opinions matter.
Someone who sincerely holds to the opinion
that the Earth is flat or that we’ve never
launch a mission into space or …to folks
like Kevin and I… that there was a bloke
from the middle east 2000 years ago who was
g-d and died so folks could go to heaven
and was born virginally and healed the sick..
…we believe there is too much evidence
“reality” that refutes this opinion that it
is not ‘worthy’ of any consideration.
Does that mean the PERSON is not worthy of
consideration? No, no.
Does it mean the PERSON is not sincere? No.
It just means that not all opinions are equal.
Where I think Keven was caught unprepared was
treating this as a dialogue where he didn’t
need to site proof text.
In other words, precisely because he wasn’t
trying to be rhetorical or see this as a
formal debate, he didn’t act like it and
was found “wanting” based on his minority
views.
Does that help?
Warmly,
Paulie
*sigh*
Never mind.
Okay, Jonathan.
…
Still with Warmth to you,
Paulie
😦
http://www.marxindrag.com/Marxindrag/Blog/Entries/2009/12/7_Tiger_Woods_Polyqueer.html
I thought this was interesting. Also check out Susie Bright’s blog.
You may be too much of a thinker for the rubes who come out of the woodwork when a mainstream show like Celeb Sex Rehab is aired. I remember being frustrated about all of the reactionary right wing/neocon stuff flying around when I started to blog (anonymously) a few years ago. My friend said, man, if you get upset at all that stuff, you might as well just pack it in now. In other words, let it be, move on, find those who will explore what is hidden.
Oh, and this need to put one in a category crops up at this time of year for me. I have a Jewish father and WASP mother. My mother loves Christmas. It was the highlight of my year. The other day an acquaintance says to me, “You celebrate Chrismas?” implying that I, a Jew (identified by the Jewish father) should not be entitled to celebrate what had been a staple (secular joy)of my childhood. She had some coinage combining Christmas and Hanukah, Hanumas or something. Or I get a happy Hannukah greeting, etc, and am supposed to be shamed because it wasn’t something celebrated in my household. Jews reject me because the law says I am not a Jew. Non-Jews reject me because I have a Jewish Daddy. I have, as a result, been fleeing categorization ever since.
Wow, the Council of Nicaea is still in session?
You boys put those scones away once you’ve settled free will vs, determinism and what causes and defines sexual orientation …ok?
I’m off to buy more Oxy Moron. The sink’s stopped up.
Cute post to me.
Paulie
Nice!
5 ‘unknown films’ is accomplishing a lot. He may not be up for an award against Spielberg, and so what. The experience someone gets from making one film that alone is an accomplishment. The fact that you will rip on someone who has made 5 films just shows that you yourself have either accomplished very little, if anything or you have accomplished nothing out of the ordinary.
Duncan, I really enjoyed your blog today. The responses, as Jonathan noted, have been interesting, haven’t they? You know, when I saw your session with Dr. Sealy, and he asked you if you were attracted to men, the look on your face was priceless. There was a hesitation before you answered in the affirmative. I had a funny feeling you would be examining this issue further.
I know it is unsettling, to say the least, to come face to face with something you’ve believed about yourself all these years, only to find out it may not be as cut and dried as you thought. I’ve done the 12-Step thing and I know how difficult these self-discoveries can be.
However, when you are committed to being as authentic as possible, to being honest with and about yourself, you get through these times. Don’t let the opinions of others derail you from that goal. Even if your discoveries fly in the face of what they have decreed to be the case, you’ve got to chart your own course, to trot out a well-worn cliche.
As always, I wish you nothing but the best as you travel this road. I continue to pray for your health, peace, happiness and recovery. Take care and God bless.
Paulie, observant as ever, I only misspelled your name when you misspelled mine. The sarcasm you refer to was only a poor attempt at humor, a form of verbal slapstick if you will. You see I used the most condescending manner I could to suggest you were being condescending. Next time I will explain the jokes beforehand to avoid confusion on your part.
I notice you glossed over my suggestion that Paulie and Kevin are the same person, so I will ask outright. Kevin, did getting kicked set off something to drive you to appear the next instant as Paulie attempting to clarify Kevin’s obtuse posts? Or, was it just to troll for confused 20 year olds?
As much as this is fun, I find it inappropriate to hold a flame war on Duncan’s Blog. So I will insincerely apologize for any insults thus far, and withdraw from the field of battle, bloodied but unbowed. I will leave you the chance for a last word (though I am sure it will pain me to do so). Make it good.
Jonathan,
I am terribly sorry for misspelling your name.
I had to scroll back to see the h v n mistake.
No, I’m not Kevin since you ask directly.
Though you asked him, (more irony?), I have to
assume he cannot reply. And I have to assume
he cannot reply at the IP level.
All the same, I glossed over it because I tend
to think it’s the type of accusation that if denied
at all gets seen as denial with vehemence and then
the MacBeth quotations fly.
If you check his other blog posts, especially say,
“Today I wanted to talk about Jennie” or something
of that type, you’ll see “we’ve” been conversing
for a while.
Now, I don’t know what is “fun” about this for you.
However, there are many more options about who I am
and what motivates me than (a) I’m Kevin in disguise
or (b) I’m a troll cruising confused 20 year olds.
While I HOPE you don’t only suggest the second because
I’m gay…but in any case, I have no idea how old you
are and I welcome you to ring me too so you can keep
your commitment to end your “flame war” with me…
…I never believed I was at war with anyone here…
…and not be too pained at holding your tongue.
All that said, I wish only to say that I think it’s
very sad that you take my kindness for ‘weakness’ or
worse…
I guess the part about being happily married to a
man doesn’t communicate to you a lack of certain
intentions.
Wow.
I don’t know if it’s considered polite or foolish
to accept an insincere apology. However, I will
err on the side of ignorance and simply say:
Thank you, I accept. Some of what you said did
go along with my feeling hurt.
Cheers,
Paulie
PS I wish we could chat this actively and not
have it feel like a war for you.
Hi Duncan- you and I could not be more different in every way. I am a straight, Republican Air Force Officer.
At the same time, I appreciate your talent and your honesty and your innate goodness. I have been a fan of Jennie’s for the last year, and through her “met” you. It is easy to see that when it comes down to it, you were very protective of the women and tried your best to become the best person you can be..
I wish you a lot of luck in finding happiness and being healthy and making the world a better place. Best..
Thanks for your comment jarred. In fact I have many friends just like you. We manage to set our differences aside and concentrate on our similarities. I wish you all the best too.
Let me start by quoting the most important thing you wrote today that would relate to me…” Most gay men who identify as gay are born gay. However, a few men (and I count myself among them) are sexualized at an early age. I am plagued with this question: If I had not been so badly abused as an infant would I have become gay?”
Yes..this is another reason why you are so adorable to me. Your honesty when you open yourself to the world. What can I say here but to thank you..again and again.
Yes…I have been sexually abused as a child…and yes I have been sexually confused, and still I am. And yes it is my believe also that my sexual confusion came from the abuse, and I don’t believe I was born with it.
Duncan, please keep on writing your experiences on your sexuality, so that people like me can learn from you. I wish you the best holidays Duncan.
Duncan —
Though it’s slightly off-topic, I just wanted to comment on how lucky Luna is to have you!! You’re so generous to share a chunk of your life and open your heart up to a rescue dog. Thanks for sharing your love with a dog in need!
I am still thinking about this post. I haven’t read through all the comments, but I totally understand how sexualizing children impacts adult sexuality, but never applied that to gay men. Isn’t funny how we accept older women who become lesbians? No one questions the switch or calls it bi sexual. It weighs heavily on my mind that your sexuality, a deep source of pleasure, is tied to pain and to some degree must have induced a cycle of self hate. To some degree it’s a prejudice reaction, I can accept homosexuality if I can explain it (genetic, or abuse related) instead of just accepting that people have the right to pursue happiness. I have been moved by your writing, and I do watch the show but feel like it’s really missing something to bite into. If I wanted petulant children I’d sit and stare at my 15 yr old son vs. Kariann. I don’t have a recovery story, but it’s amazing how all the humanity we endure and embrace and celebrate connects us. I appreciate that there’s someone else out there saying it vs keeping it in.